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Thread: ken, chuck, doc VA discussion

  1. #1
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    Default ken, chuck, doc VA discussion

    there is a discussion about the VA on this site about the pros and cons of the VA system. one person continues to say he wants to move the discussion but continues to respond. this leads to the others to respond.
    the VA is a very important part of the medical system for our veterans. i have heard rumors about how bad it is for many years but every veteran i have known who have been treated at the VA have never said it is not any worse than private practice systems. in fact most have compliments about their treatment.
    many people mostly conservative are against the govt being involved in services of any kind to the public. they would privatize almost everything the govt is involved social security, medicare, etc and some even the military. they believe that privately owned businesses are always better and more efficient. i am a business owner but i don't believe that any more than believing in the tooth fairy.
    privately owned businesses can do better if properly motivated but so could govt run operations. i could discuss the pros and cons of both but it really boils down to motivation. is the organization motivated to provide the very best service at the very best price. if two organizations have the same exact motivations, the non profit should have the best price because all privately owned businesses have a profit portion they MUST add in to the price. remember, private business is set up to make money for the owners. this is not bad but just a fact. but in the real world things get complicated. non profits get lazy and political. privately owned businesses also get lazy, political and greedy. accountability, over sight, and strong consequences are part of the answer but not completely.
    i have spoken on other sites about ethical capitalism. most folks in business don't understand the concept. they are used to capitalism that is only profit driven which is not the only important things we should consider in a civilized world we all share.
    Last edited by gary1001; 04-27-2015 at 02:26 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Thanks for doing what one of us should have done. Thanks again! The young lady can go back to her problems instead of ours

    I go back to before Medicaid and Medicare. Then the VA was many folks last resort. Treating the aging population in often terminal situations tends to garner criticism. But, then it could go beyond that. The situations like Phoenix are, sadly, not unique. They are a reoccurring theme through the years.

    My current concern is because of the large number of recent vets. They are young where it was an aged group dominating in the past. They have a lot of issues that the VA didn't address in the past and, frankly, I'll say that those young vet have a bigger call for superior services.

    You talk about privatization not being all it is cracked up to being. I agree. It comes about because some system seems broken beyond repair. It a good political cop out. The government is good at hiring and very poor about firing. This allows mediocrity to flourish. If you look at the head of the VA, you'll see they normally come to the job because of a scandal of some sort. They are typically a blue ribbon choice. I just looked and there have been 13 since George H. W. Bush with 3 during the 6 years under Obama. Every president has tried to fix the VA. The system seem to have always won. The latest is the former president of P&G. There have been generals and a recent one was a military double amputee. These are people with talent who are motivated and they just don't last or win the day.

    Until the always outstanding employee review process and a responsible means of culling dead wood, that will continue. But, this new situation of young, heroic disabled will hopefully make it politically impossible to use band-aids until it is again moved out of the spotlight.

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  3. #3

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    kenny you might want to google your Phoenix Mayo Clinic try lawsuits and preventable deaths. I am not aware of any VA docs taking pictures of female patients in compromising positions.

    as of the first of the year any Vet in the Healthcare system who can not get an appt in a timely manner or lives 40+ miles from a VA clinic can see a private doc of his choosing on the VAs dime.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Jake View Post
    kenny you might want to google your Phoenix Mayo Clinic try lawsuits and preventable deaths. I am not aware of any VA docs taking pictures of female patients in compromising positions.

    as of the first of the year any Vet in the Healthcare system who can not get an appt in a timely manner or lives 40+ miles from a VA clinic can see a private doc of his choosing on the VAs dime.
    So, the smart disabled vets will make sure they live more than 40 miles out?

    And... how about compromising pics of the fellows? VA is still pretty male dominated. (Great stretch, Jakey.)
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    kenny you shouldnt drink and post.. you make absolutely zero sense.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Jake View Post
    kenny you shouldnt drink and post.. you make absolutely zero sense.
    Thanks Jakey. Coming from you, it is a compliment.
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    KenP you are now on my ignore list. You have a one track mine and some kind of mission against the VA. With friends like you who needs enemies. Also do not even reply I will not see it.
    Chuck
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  8. #8

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    Chuck, where else can you get this level of entertainment for free. I find it interesting that a draft doger who can not use the VA is so concerned. it might be all the smoke clouding judgement.
    Last edited by Doc Jake; 04-27-2015 at 12:24 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by gary1001 View Post
    there is a discussion about the VA on this site about the pros and cons of the VA system. one person continues to say he wants to move the discussion but continues to respond. this leads to the others to respond.
    the VA is a very important part of the medical system for our veterans. i have heard rumors about how bad it is for many years but every veteran i have known who have been treated at the VA have never said it is any worse than private practice systems. in fact most have compliments about their treatment.
    many people mostly conservative are against the govt being involved in services of any kind to the public. they would privatize almost everything the govt is involved social security, medicare, etc and some even the military. they believe that privately owned businesses are always better and more efficient. i am a business owner but i don't believe that any more than believing in the tooth fairy.
    privately owned businesses can do better if properly motivated but so could govt run operations. i could discuss the pros and cons of both but it really boils down to motivation. is the organization motivated to provide the very best service at the very best price. if two organizations have the same exact motivations, the non profit should have the best price because all privately owned businesses have a profit portion they MUST add in to the price. remember, private business is set up to make money for the owners. this is not bad but just a fact. but in the real world things get complicated. non profits get lazy and political. privately owned businesses also get lazy, political and greedy. accountability, over sight, and strong consequences are part of the answer but not completely.
    i have spoken on other sites about ethical capitalism. most folks in business don't understand the concept. they are used to capitalism that is only profit driven which is not the only important things we should consider in a civilized world we all share.
    Just for the general information here. I used private doctors most of my life. Then in 2003 I lost my job so I applied to the VA so I could get my medical needs taken care of. And when I went back to work about 8 months later I had medical insurance but I choice to stay with the VA seeing the clinic was close by home. Then I moved to a new area and a new VA region and did not wish to drive 50 miles to so the doctors or I believed at the time I had to go that far. So I went back to private doctors and I was never happy with the doctors that I went to. So when I found the clinic here in the area I went back to the VA and I am happy with that choice.
    Also with private doctors and out damn insurance company I was never able to get the services and care I needed without a huge fight with the insurance companies, it seemed that the meds that worked for me was not allowed by the insurance companies. So I ended up either sick due to having to take meds that did not work for me, or I had to pay full price for them which I did in some cases.
    I have never had that issue with the VA and I never had an issue with paying outrageous co-pays. And I love the fact that the VA doctors are not pressured by the insurance companies and the drug companies to order certain drugs.
    Also due to the help of the VA and the fact that I am no longer working, I am med free for the first time in about 40 years. I was able to see a dietitian and with the help of the doctors and the dietitians I was able to get my weight under control and in doing so I no longer have high blood pressure, and by finding out what I was allergic to I am now almost completely allergy free.
    Say what you wish about the good and the bad of the VA system it will work if you stay with it and you make some friends along the way. The private doctors were OK but they were afraid of a person that took interest in his on health, they did not like it when I asked questions or when I asked if there was a different med or if there was a none drug way of healing. Believe it or not I have not had that issue with the VA doctors. They seem help that someone is willing to help their selves.
    Now is this try all over the country I do not know I have only been in the VA system in the DFW area and the Central Texas area.
    Chuck
    Navy Vet (Service Related hearing loss)
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  10. #10
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    chuck, you quoted me but i'm not sure what you were trying to say to me. you said, "Say what you wish about the good and the bad of the VA system it will work if you stay with it and you make some friends along the way."

    i don't think i said anything bad except i had heard rumors and i said the folks i knew who had visited the VA felt it wasn't any worst than private practice and i included that
    most have compliments about their treatment.

    in my opinion. if the rumors are true all of us should be upset because it is absurd that any group of people ask others to protect them and are not willing to give back to these folks. do i think privatization is the answer, no, because i have worked in other situations where privatization was supposed to be better than govt implementation and i found this was not true at NASA.
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