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Thread: Really worried now

  1. #11
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    Well, I'll stick with my idea. Another "pro" degree would be a JD who graduates with no responsibilities or ethical requirements. It is the bar association and being sworn in by the courts that create that.

    The idea another qualified individual cannot adjust/treat a patient is an abomination. It is a trade association that goes beyond the pale to protect members using outlandish laws they lobbied for. State licensing is mostly a joke. They license barbers and all sorts of trades that restrict competition.

    So when a person moves all the way across Canada, you are telling me he must travel all the way back to get a needed adjustment? How about the one that find the audiologist is incompetent? I suppose he'll be out another $6000 for the same aids so someone else can fit them?

    P.S. What is your profession? Just curious.
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  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by KenP View Post
    Another "pro" degree would be a JD who graduates with no responsibilities or ethical requirements.
    Yes but with a JD degree you can't practice law. Can you get an AudD degree without registering for anything (as you can with a PhD in Clinical Psychology)? In psychology, it only becomes an issue when you want to go out into the world and practice the thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by KenP View Post
    The idea another qualified individual cannot adjust/treat a patient is an abomination... So when a person moves all the way across Canada, you are telling me he must travel all the way back to get a needed adjustment? How about the one that find the audiologist is incompetent? I suppose he'll be out another $6000 for the same aids so someone else can fit them
    So very sad (and frankly, kind of an embarrassment to the industry.) It's like walking into a pharmacy with a prescription and being told they won't fill it because you didn't get it from the doctor who owns the pharmacy. Or vice versa, being refused treatment at a doctor's office because you don't buy your medication from the pharmacy they own.

    I was telling my family doctor about this the other day. It's a university health clinic, so practically all of her patients are young, and she hasn't encountered this. She was flabbergasted. "That's a conflict of interest!" She said that about ten times.

    I also think the issue of tampering with another professional's prescription is largely BS, too. If I move across the country and go to a new doctor, she will of course be cautious regarding any treatment underway. She'll almost certainly want to get the files sent over from the original doctor, and so on. But she won't refuse to treat me. Come on.

    I had this problem when I moved to the city I live in now. Several clinics flat-out refused to see me. One chain told me their policy is that if you pay $600 up front, they'll take you on. I was lucky, though -- I finally found an audiologist in a suburban clinic who helped me out tremendously. But she wouldn't take any payment, and couldn't really, since it was all under the radar. But the whole thing was pretty distressing.
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  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by KenP View Post
    The idea another qualified individual cannot adjust/treat a patient is an abomination.

    ...

    P.S. What is your profession? Just curious.


    I'm working as an audiologist at the moment.

    And yes, I agree that it's a weird regulation and I'm not sure how many clinicians clear on exactly how it applies or are calling previous practitioners to get their permission to make changes.

    I am also not thrilled by the move towards more bundling --> This is the price and it covers all batteries and services for the next three years. Hearing tests are free (aka rolled into other hidden fees). In my ideal clinic, I would be paid for my time (and overhead re: equipment, etc.) and all other costs would be separate and transparent. It wouldn't matter whether someone were bringing an outside hearing aid to my clinic because I would still just be charging for my time. But that being said, I'm not my own boss and I have no business accumen or interests. There are huge costs involved in running a clinic that I don't even think about. I'd probably be really bad at breaking even, let alone making a profit. Bundling and free hearing tests seem to be what the competative market is forcing: Why would someone pay for a hearing test when they could go elsewhere and get it for "free"? Even thinking about those sorts of financial business decisions stresses me out.

    I'm just lucky in that I work at an independent clinic that is very generous to its patients and its community; our prices seem to be competative and yet I'm able to do a lot of pro bono work.

  4. #14
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    I thought that might be the case as you've posted more technical/complete answers than most of us are capable off. I hope you'll check in regularly.

    Looks like you work with one of the better clinics. Your industry is in flux. In the states, two Senators have introduced legislation to open the market more. How well that goes remains to be seen. And, there are PSAP vendors coming out of the woodwork it seems.
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  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neville View Post
    I'm working as an audiologist at the moment.

    And yes, I agree that it's a weird regulation and I'm not sure how many clinicians clear on exactly how it applies or are calling previous practitioners to get their permission to make changes.

    I am also not thrilled by the move towards more bundling --> This is the price and it covers all batteries and services for the next three years. Hearing tests are free (aka rolled into other hidden fees). In my ideal clinic, I would be paid for my time (and overhead re: equipment, etc.) and all other costs would be separate and transparent. It wouldn't matter whether someone were bringing an outside hearing aid to my clinic because I would still just be charging for my time. But that being said, I'm not my own boss and I have no business accumen or interests. There are huge costs involved in running a clinic that I don't even think about. I'd probably be really bad at breaking even, let alone making a profit. Bundling and free hearing tests seem to be what the competative market is forcing: Why would someone pay for a hearing test when they could go elsewhere and get it for "free"? Even thinking about those sorts of financial business decisions stresses me out.

    I'm just lucky in that I work at an independent clinic that is very generous to its patients and its community; our prices seem to be competative and yet I'm able to do a lot of pro bono work.
    If this post was on Facebook, I would "like" it!
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  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by KenP View Post
    Your industry is in flux. In the states, two Senators have introduced legislation to open the market more. How well that goes remains to be seen. And, there are PSAP vendors coming out of the woodwork it seems.
    I think this is all good, but at the same time, as much as I rail against the atrocious injustices -- jk! -- committed by the hearing aid industry, I do think there's a danger of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

    I wonder if lots of people go out and get PSAPs, and they work pretty well, but they don't work nearly as well as well-fitted "real" hearing aids.

    I also wonder how good the clinical outcomes are for people who buy "real" aids online or through sketchy chains that get only minimal service after the initial, audiogram-only, first fit.

    While I think the industry's model definitely needs a revamp, I think good clinical care shouldn't be what gets tossed out.
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    L 30 60 60 60 60 55 60 60 70 SRT: 60dB WRS: 88% @90dB

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by corona View Post
    I think this is all good, but at the same time, as much as I rail against the atrocious injustices -- jk! -- committed by the hearing aid industry, I do think there's a danger of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

    I wonder if lots of people go out and get PSAPs, and they work pretty well, but they don't work nearly as well as well-fitted "real" hearing aids.

    I also wonder how good the clinical outcomes are for people who buy "real" aids online or through sketchy chains that get only minimal service after the initial, audiogram-only, first fit.

    While I think the industry's model definitely needs a revamp, I think good clinical care shouldn't be what gets tossed out.
    All those who cannot afford HAs are not getting any clinical care. I think that is what the shake up is aimed at addressing. If the industry had addressed prices and services then I doubt governments would have felt a need to step in.
    Carol

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  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psocoptera View Post
    All those who cannot afford HAs are not getting any clinical care. I think that is what the shake up is aimed at addressing. If the industry had addressed prices and services then I doubt governments would have felt a need to step in.
    Yes! I agree.
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  9. #19

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    In the U.S. there are very few folks who are going without aids simply because they cant afford them.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by KenP View Post
    Looks like you work with one of the better clinics. Your industry is in flux. In the states, two Senators have introduced legislation to open the market more. How well that goes remains to be seen. And, there are PSAP vendors coming out of the woodwork it seems.
    My biggest problemwith PSAPs is that when they come in and I put them in the test box, theirmaximum output is generally WAY too high. Damagingly high. I saw one the otherday that was handily hovering around 140 dB SPL.

    Iíve been telling my colleagues that it wonít be long until hearing aids fitthemselves for the vast majority of users with standard sorts of hearing loss. Iímnot too bothered by people fitting themselves. The manufacturer first fit tendsto be under-amplified for maximum speech audibility and Iíd guess that most peoplewould fit for comfort rather than performance, but if they are happy with thatthen who am I to tell them not to do it? It might cut a chunk out of ourindustry, but there are a ton of other things that audiologists do aside fromfitting hearing aids, if they care to focus their businesses in those otherdirections. No one is going to be DIYing paediatric amplification, centralauditory processing, tinnitus treatment, or vestibular assessment any timesoon.

    Sometimes I entertain myself by imagining clever self-fitting set-up programsthat would walk the user through some steps to fit the aids. Something easyenough for my grandfather to do.

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