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Thread: New Hearing assist devices better than hearing aids

  1. #51

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    Maybe as an old fart you should evaluate why you are in a 20 something bar. That girl that you couldn't hear was probably asking her friend why that old fart was learing at her.

  2. #52

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    LOL doc jake
    Tony
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    To clarify, I think tgh was just cut and pasting a review by some guy in a 20-something bar of the Nuheara earbuds that he showed on the link. TGH didn't write up this review himself.
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  4. #54
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    Sorry tgh but my HA's do a much better job than your newfangled earbuds. With my HA's I would hear everything she is saying. Get another audiologist who knows what they are doing when setting up HA's, yours clearly doesn't know what they are doing. They may be well respected in the community, but their knowledge of programming HA's is limited. JMHO!
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  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgh View Post
    I bought hearing aids in the hope that they would help me to hear better..really...strange question.
    Initially purchased premium Siemens aids set up by a "corner store audio".. different practitioner every visit.. some were great and some were not.
    The aids were useful in light noise and useless in high noise.
    I then visited another practitioner whose diagnosis and presentation were vastly more sophisticated and thorough.
    Impressed by this new level of service I purchased the Audeo Q90's on a firm promise that I would hear in noise.

    I have had the aids for two years and I can't hear in noise and they and they can't make them any better.
    They now say it's my fault , not theirs…..:-)
    Nothing is simple , it now seems that the caveat to the sales pitch was "hear".
    To make me hear they wish to remodel my brains understanding of what it perceives, ie very substantial frequency shift.
    To fool my brain that e flat is now a minor , I would have to always hear the note in that manner and somehow learn to love discordance……
    Of course my brain now has a real e flat without aids and a phony one with them.. tough luck brain…


    They also expect that I will wear the aids a minimum of four hours a day..
    This probably a fair expectation however given the nature of my life, it is enormously difficult to do and I'm not convinced the return will reward the inconvenience.

    So.. I trot along regularly and they go through the motions..remind me that it's all my fault …. and my opinion of hearing aids and audiology is less than charitable.

    I'm certainly highly sensitive to nuances in the mid range, a lifetime of critical listening to machinery has perhaps trained my brain to be over sensitive.
    I had another relevant play with settings etc last night in a noisy and very echo-ey restaurant with lots of hard surface for the sound to bounce around.
    On any setting the aids amplify all the high level clatter all over the place and in fact do a really good job of allowing me to hear a lot of the speech of others nearby, while failing completely to identify or amplify the voices right in front of me.
    On my most aggressive program, I have max directional amplification and max noise cancel available.
    Running flat out in that mode they over amplify all the extraneous stuff and still don't pick up any speech in front of me that i can hear…
    This is not a comfortable level of sound but could be tolerated if it actually delivered usable definition.
    Lower volume levels in this or any of the other programs including the audio preferred auto..don't blast me with noise and still don't pick up nearby speech

    While trenchant believers in the hearing aid god may now delight in demolishing my little tome , loudly supporting their belief systems audio and lambasting my lack of conformity...I wait patiently for something that will let me hear in noise.
    If it is a better mousetrap, ie a hearing aid that can actually discriminate in heavy noise between a voice a metre away and a voice 5m away, then I will buy them.


    If it is indeed a $400 ear bud..that will be my solution ..
    Not really. Your stated ambition didn't seem to bear out in your answers.

    You didn't answer the 1-10 question about amplification either.

    Whoever said that you need four hours wear time is clearly not well read on current best practice in regards to mental plasticity; which would put that figure nearer 8-10hours to achieve the mental 'programming' you need, with more for frequency shifting devices.
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    I haven't really investigated the newer ear buds, but it appears at first glance that those makers are coming at the issue from a different point of view, that of high quality audio first, then adapting to solve hearing issues. I hope the competition pushes the current HA makers into new and better audio designs!

    From what I've been able to piece together, almost all HA's available now use 16 bit D/A converters. I've concluded that until HA manufacturers start using 24 bit D/A converters instead of 16, they can't really be serious about audio quality. Once they run the signal through the 16 bit D/A converter, all the fancy programming and software can never get good quality audio back.

    They do amazingly well, especially with voice, considering this limitations, but it does put an upper limit on what they can do. Just using a 24 bit converter will not in any way guarantee good audio quality, as there is much more to it, but using a 16 bit converter makes it impossible. The good Audi's are able to make the current crop work pretty well, but they are also hampered by the design limitations of the HA's available now.
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  7. #57
    Join Date
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    I think Oticon uses 24 bit and Widex 18 bit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob h View Post
    I haven't really investigated the newer ear buds, but it appears at first glance that those makers are coming at the issue from a different point of view, that of high quality audio first, then adapting to solve hearing issues. I hope the competition pushes the current HA makers into new and better audio designs!

    From what I've been able to piece together, almost all HA's available now use 16 bit D/A converters. I've concluded that until HA manufacturers start using 24 bit D/A converters instead of 16, they can't really be serious about audio quality. Once they run the signal through the 16 bit D/A converter, all the fancy programming and software can never get good quality audio back.

    They do amazingly well, especially with voice, considering this limitations, but it does put an upper limit on what they can do. Just using a 24 bit converter will not in any way guarantee good audio quality, as there is much more to it, but using a 16 bit converter makes it impossible. The good Audi's are able to make the current crop work pretty well, but they are also hampered by the design limitations of the HA's available now.
    The main difference between 16-bit and 24-bit is the 48dB more dynamic range 24-bit has over 16 bits (96dB vs 144dB). While higher dynamic range is better, it doesn't translate to higher audio quality. 24-bit lends itself to better for recording and mixing due to the extra headroom, and in the case of the HAs, for better digital processing. But for playback, it's not possible even for a hifi system at home to playback even 96dB above the room noise floor without blowing your eardrums away, let alone 144dB. So an HA using 16-bit vs an HA using 24-bit processing still cannot reproduce on the output playback the dynamic range of a 16-bit system, let alone the 24-bit system. The bottom line is that you wouldn't be able to tell the quality difference between 16-bit and 24-bit on the playback anyway. The difference is only more useful for the processing of the data, not the reproduction of the data.

    Here's a link that goes into more details about it: http://www.head-fi.org/t/415361/24bi...-myth-exploded
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  9. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Um bongo View Post
    Not really. Your stated ambition didn't seem to bear out in your answers.

    You didn't answer the 1-10 question about amplification either.

    Whoever said that you need four hours wear time is clearly not well read on current best practice in regards to mental plasticity; which would put that figure nearer 8-10hours to achieve the mental 'programming' you need, with more for frequency shifting devices.

    I almost agree with you but the "mental programing" needed may not just be for the hearing issues. if one is to believe that a in-programmed amplifier along with noise cancelation (additional noise) will help you hear better than a Hearing aid

  10. Default

    I got myself a demo of the nuheara at their office in Perth. A bit frustrating actually because of time constraints. I really didn't feel like I should take up too much of their time and I think these things really do require time. For those interested, there's a 30 day money back guarantee. There is (or was?) a promotion code "SAVE40" for $40 off. I can't give a verdict one way or the other. I'm thinking about it. Delivery wouldn't be until April. The lady's voice was definitely clearer than unaided but music didn't sound as good as I hoped. Then again, it wasn't my music and I probably didn't have the right tube inserted. I was hoping for more sophisticated control over equalisation. It seems to be just a single dial in the app. Some reviews claim 15 hours of use between charges. It's actually 4 hours. If I had more disposable cash I'd definitely get a pair just to play with. I still think this class of consumer electronics will be huge. Maybe in the second or third generation?

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