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Thread: Self Programming DOs and DON'Ts

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    Further...as pvc said...a variation was recently verified to work when someone figured out getting drivers from somewhere. That's what he's talking about. Unfortunately that thread was lost from the forum hiccup. But pvc updated his threads again for future readers and I happen to think that's terrifically helpful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by z10user2 View Post
    I hate posting timeouts. I had written a whole thing and I forgot to defensively copy the text and clicked post and gone. Crap.
    Anyway...I'll make this shorter.

    Give it up cszoom1. pvc has been helpful in this diy thing. I don't care if something is a rip-off, knock-off, counterfeit whatever. If it works and is cheaper than "the proper" product then oh well. pvc has collected information on several variations that apparently work. Great. Readers can make up their minds if they want to use any of those options weighing quality and workmanship and whatever criteria they like when it comes to THEIR money. I know I will come the day.
    Go ahead and say your piece when you feel so inclined (not that you need my permission of course). But the rudeness is completely unnecessary. Sure pvc could stop egging you on and be the bigger person but if you rise to the bait then that's on you.
    You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but I believe there are users on this forum who would never knowingly purchase counterfeit goods or support the trafficking of illegal merchandise. pvc's manifesto conveniently leaves out the facts that new users need to make an informed purchasing decision. I do plan to continue voicing my concerns, so thank you for your support. And I apologize if my post came across as rude, but sometimes it's difficult to get through someone's thick skull.

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    The term "illegal" is something for the courts and lawyers to sort out. I personally believe only good will come from competition in the market. The original manufacturer must lower their price to a reasonable level or they WILL lose market share to others, one way or another.

    Unless you change the way you present your message, no one will pay any attention to it. You will just end up on more readers "ignore" list! Your continued rants will accomplish nothing useful.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cszoom1 View Post
    You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but I believe there are users on this forum who would never knowingly purchase counterfeit goods or support the trafficking of illegal merchandise. pvc's manifesto conveniently leaves out the facts that new users need to make an informed purchasing decision.
    And I get that. As bob h says change the style. I would suggest that each time one of these threads gets added to or pvc makes an edit, you could remind the readers that there is a certified proper supported product and that what are being suggested are not.
    I'm no lawyer but I'm not so sure about the illegality. If the case and the fonts and the mainboard are all the same then yeah that's a copy. If there are differences but the end result is that it actually works then I don't see the illegality. If someone is going to go to the trouble of reverse engineering any embedded firmware and then re-do it themselves then again I don't see the problem. Heck I would even venture to guess that that reverse-engineered version would now itself be protected. I highly doubt that the data and the method of transmission are protected. But I'm no lawyer.

    Quote Originally Posted by cszoom1 View Post
    I do plan to continue voicing my concerns, so thank you for your support. And I apologize if my post came across as rude, but sometimes it's difficult to get through someone's thick skull.
    It's a mostly free forum. Knock yourself out. Like I said I'm not anyone to give anyone permission to speak. I can't imagine why you feel compelled to get through someone's thick skull though. Speak to the readers that come afterwards. Lay out your case and let those people that don't buy "fake" products know. But have the facts. Hire a lawyer to tell you whether or not those close but not exact products are "illegal". Isn't it interesting that the manufacturer isn't telling those close variations to stop. But when someone puts up a copy for sale then they're all over them apparently.
    The problem is the manufacturer limiting sales of their product to hearing aid shops and/or charging the moon for the thing. DIY'ers will be DIY'ers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by z10user2 View Post
    I'm no lawyer but I'm not so sure about the illegality.
    You're not sure that a product which is identical to another product and is packaged with a duplicate of the software disc that accompanies the original product is not illegal? That's what we're talking about here with the eBay counterfeit, or "variation", as you put it above. I don't think you need a J.D. degree to figure this out. But FYI, copies that bear the original's exact design and brand name are prohibited by law in most countries throughout the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cszoom1 View Post
    You're not sure that a product which is identical to another product and is packaged with a duplicate of the software disc that accompanies the original product is not illegal? That's what we're talking about here with the eBay counterfeit, or "variation", as you put it above. I don't think you need a J.D. degree to figure this out. But FYI, copies that bear the original's exact design and brand name are prohibited by law in most countries throughout the world.
    I didn't say that. I agree with you that a complete copy is a problem. I was saying, and pvc's pictures suggest with the mini pro, that these are slightly different products. Which might explain why the company doesn't go after them. As you say, if someone tries to sell a product that says all the wrong things that belong to someone else then sure that's a problem. Obviously. But if they're selling something that WORKS for the task and is not identical then I don't have a problem with that. I would probably buy a rip-off anyway but that's just me.

    And I'll even tip my hat towards you for alerting people to that fact. But they're free to make up their own minds if they want to go ahead and purchase it anyway.

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