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Thread: Anybody tried adjusting Frequency Shifting/transposition?

  1. #1
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    Default Anybody tried adjusting Frequency Shifting/transposition?

    Curious if any of you DIY have tried adjusting frequency shifting on your hearing aids? The default recommendation for my audiogram from the Connexx 8 software is to use a range of 5-7hz. I also downloaded Phonak software and input my audiogram. It's range was notably different (2.8-4.6hz) I realize that there are some differences in how the different companies accomplish this, but I was surprised by the dramatic difference. From my understanding of threshholds, the Phonak recommendations make more sense, although they seem a bit drastic. Am tempted to try to gradually shiift the range on my KS7s down towards Phonak's Target recommendation. Anybody have any experience doing this? Thanks?
    .25 .5 1 1.5 2 3.0 4.0 6.0 8.0

    15 15 20 30 30 55 75 90 NR ​KS7
    10 10 20 15 25 35 65 85 95 WRS 100/92@45/40

  2. #2

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    First of all, did you mean to say KHz? Otherwise Hz is too low and doesn't make sense.

    Secondly, are you talking about frequency shifting as in squeezing the higher frequency range into lower frequency range to help with better audibility of the highs because they're now transposed into lower tones? Or are you talking about something else?
    HA wearer since the 1990's > Rexton Insite+ CIC (2011-2016) > Oticon OPN RITE (2016)

    KHz 0.25...0.5...0.75...1.0...1.5...2.0...3.0...4.0... 6.0...8.0

    Left ...10...10....10.....30.....70....75....80....95.. ..90....80
    Right .25...30....40.....55.....75....85....90....90...1 00...100

  3. #3
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    Pretty much yes and yes! Maybe I could "feel" 5-7hz, but I certainly couldn't hear it. And yes, what you describe is what I'm talking about. Everybody's got a different name for it and they accomplish it in somewhat different ways, but the general idea is the same.
    .25 .5 1 1.5 2 3.0 4.0 6.0 8.0

    15 15 20 30 30 55 75 90 NR ​KS7
    10 10 20 15 25 35 65 85 95 WRS 100/92@45/40

  4. #4

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    Of course I don't have any experience in doing this. But this coming June when I get the new firmware update for the OPNs, for sure I'm going to ask the audi to implement the frequency shifting for me to try out and I'll report back here my experience.

    Hypothetically speaking, because I don't have any experience in this, of course, I think frequency shifting by compressing the frequency ranges from a wider range into a narrower range equally (say between 250Hz-8KHz to 250Hz-2KHz) would not be desirable, especially if the compression is linear, because you basically lose the authenticity of the sound signal. Maybe there's a non-linear type compression (maybe logarithmic???) that preserve the lows and mids to be almost as is, and perhaps between 1-2KHz range the compression is logarithmically more progressive, then it'd be not too bad.

    But I think the transpose and merge approach by Oticon with their Speech Rescue LX (cut out a chunk at the high end and transpose that chunk down in the mid range and simply merge that chunk with what's already there) will probably preserve the authenticity of the sound the best because you'll hear the same information in your audible range and only additional information on top that you didn't hear before but now you do. Essentially it's "hear the same and more now" instead of "hear similar but different" now.
    Last edited by Volusiano; 05-04-2017 at 05:59 PM.
    HA wearer since the 1990's > Rexton Insite+ CIC (2011-2016) > Oticon OPN RITE (2016)

    KHz 0.25...0.5...0.75...1.0...1.5...2.0...3.0...4.0... 6.0...8.0

    Left ...10...10....10.....30.....70....75....80....95.. ..90....80
    Right .25...30....40.....55.....75....85....90....90...1 00...100

  5. #5

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    Phonak's adaptive frequency lowering is currently best for maintaining speech integrity while providing access to high frequency speech sounds.

    If you can get someone to stand at a comfortable conversational distance and talk at you while you adjust your aids, increase the strength of the frequency lowering until you can just hear their terminal /s/ sounds. That should be approximately where you want it. Generally the manufacturer's target is a bit on the weak side (just like their amplification), although I've seen a couple of the new phonaks (Belong or Audeo Venture) where I ended up reducing the strength of the frequency lowering after speech mapping rather than increasing it.

    Speech mapping can and should be done for frequency lowering if you are having your HAs adjusted by a professional, but frequently is not.

  6. #6
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    Thank you. That is helpful. Makes sense that most manufacturers err on the weak side and what you say about your experience with Phonak certainly agrees with my experience with their software. Likely ideal settings are somewhere in between. Thanks again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neville View Post
    Phonak's adaptive frequency lowering is currently best for maintaining speech integrity while providing access to high frequency speech sounds.

    If you can get someone to stand at a comfortable conversational distance and talk at you while you adjust your aids, increase the strength of the frequency lowering until you can just hear their terminal /s/ sounds. That should be approximately where you want it. Generally the manufacturer's target is a bit on the weak side (just like their amplification), although I've seen a couple of the new phonaks (Belong or Audeo Venture) where I ended up reducing the strength of the frequency lowering after speech mapping rather than increasing it.

    Speech mapping can and should be done for frequency lowering if you are having your HAs adjusted by a professional, but frequently is not.
    .25 .5 1 1.5 2 3.0 4.0 6.0 8.0

    15 15 20 30 30 55 75 90 NR ​KS7
    10 10 20 15 25 35 65 85 95 WRS 100/92@45/40

  7. Default

    Do an Advanced Search for (frequency translation), pull down the (Search Entire Posts) box to select (search Titles Only)... You get something like this...
    http://www.hearingaidforums.com/show...cy-Translation

    Also try the titles only search for (frequency shifting). You will get more that just a single hit as above.

    Also for a more broad search, or maybe as your starting point, try the titles only search for (frequency). You get way more hits, but then you have to pick and choose which threads to look at.
    Click >>Hidden Content << when your post count=10+ or Use Search for "self programming"
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  8. #8
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    Thanks. Found some interesting discussions. Like most learning, although what I read is repetitive, having things said in different ways is helpful.

    Quote Originally Posted by pvc View Post
    Do an Advanced Search for (frequency translation), pull down the (Search Entire Posts) box to select (search Titles Only)... You get something like this...
    http://www.hearingaidforums.com/show...cy-Translation

    Also try the titles only search for (frequency shifting). You will get more that just a single hit as above.

    Also for a more broad search, or maybe as your starting point, try the titles only search for (frequency). You get way more hits, but then you have to pick and choose which threads to look at.
    - - - Updated - - -

    Thanks. Found some interesting discussions. Like most learning, although what I read is repetitive, having things said in different ways is helpful.

    Quote Originally Posted by pvc View Post
    Do an Advanced Search for (frequency translation), pull down the (Search Entire Posts) box to select (search Titles Only)... You get something like this...
    http://www.hearingaidforums.com/show...cy-Translation

    Also try the titles only search for (frequency shifting). You will get more that just a single hit as above.

    Also for a more broad search, or maybe as your starting point, try the titles only search for (frequency). You get way more hits, but then you have to pick and choose which threads to look at.
    .25 .5 1 1.5 2 3.0 4.0 6.0 8.0

    15 15 20 30 30 55 75 90 NR ​KS7
    10 10 20 15 25 35 65 85 95 WRS 100/92@45/40

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